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HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 12:44:59 PM
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prov2717ironsharpens
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I am engaged and have been for four years. I have been holding off in hopes that my fiancé will change in the areas of his relationship with the Lord (desiring to pursue Him) and being financially stable. As a side note: I do not want to change him and, if doable, I need to accept him for who is is now. Since being with him, he has been in several new business pursuits and hasn't had a job for over 20 years. He is struggling terribly financially and will not look for a job. He believes if he were to get a full time job, he wouldn't be able to devote the attention he needs to develop his business.
He is a wonderful, caring man who is concerned for my well-being. He loves my children and family, and goes to great lengths to make sure some of our needs are met. I suppose these things aren't enough for me to say "I do" but they are traits that I adore and love about him.
I am having second thoughts about where we are going with our relationship and whether I want to call the engagement off. There are other issues that have occurred and I'm feeling pretty insecure about our relationship.
Oh did I mention, I am divorced and was married for 24 years. My fiancé is 52 years old and has never been married.
Thank you for your advice.
God bless.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 12:56:13 PM
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crankius
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I agree with elastic.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 1:04:45 PM
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prov2717ironsharpens
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Okay, so just humor me because maybe I'm a little slow and my emotions are all entwined in this relationship, but when you say run, does that mean break up with him or call the engagement off and see where it goes?
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 1:09:03 PM
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deermousie
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Prov2717ironsharpens, I think your answer is here:
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1 Timothy 5:8
God says it's a big deal for a man to support his family, and a man who doesn't has denied his faith in God. God calls him an unbeliever. You'd be unequally yoked, marrying him.
You have been wise to wait rather than marry him and hope he'd change then. He hasn't had a job in 20 years and getting married isn't enough to push him into getting one; being married will motivate him even less.
I'm sorry. Your four years haven't been wasted, but have been insurance against marrying the wrong guy.
And welcome to the forum, Prov2717ironsharpens. You'll find lots of good fellowship here!
Edit: I just read your last post. He hasn't had a job in 20 years, and you guys have been engaged for 4. His track record is pretty consistant, I'm afraid; he's not likely to change. Your choices are casual friend or wife. I'd call the engagement off, tell him you like him but it isn't going to work (because he won't work) and break off the friendship as well for a year so the emotions can go back to normal. If he offers to get a job, let him hold it for two years first to weed out empty promises. This must be pretty disappointing to you, but I think it would be far worse if you married him.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 11/14/2008 1:18:23 PM >
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 1:11:07 PM
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crankius
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Personally, I would break it off. I don't really believe you can remain in a romantic relationship with a person you don't plan/hope to marry.
If you were only friends with him all this time, then it would just be a friendship. But it has been an engagement, so when you break that off, you also should break off the romance.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 1:26:56 PM
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prov2717ironsharpens
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This is difficult and I wanted honest feedback. I went to a football game with a few girlfriends a few weeks ago and one of the guys stated "who stays engaged for four years", and then the guys all proceeded to say that my fiance obviously doesn't want to get married especially if he knows my needs and hasn't made an effort to satisfy them. That was a tough pill to swallow and I have been in deep thought ever since. I did call him a few minutes ago stating I made plans for tonight with girlfriends and wouldn't be seeing him. I just can't drop the bomb on him and need to slowly do it in my way. First, I need to come to grips with the realization of my decision.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 2:01:33 PM
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prov2717ironsharpens
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quote:
Edit: I just read your last post. He hasn't had a job in 20 years, and you guys have been engaged for 4. His track record is pretty consistant, I'm afraid; he's not likely to change. Your choices are casual friend or wife. I'd call the engagement off, tell him you like him but it isn't going to work (because he won't work) and break off the friendship as well for a year so the emotions can go back to normal. If he offers to get a job, let him hold it for two years first to weed out empty promises. This must be pretty disappointing to you, but I think it would be far worse if you married him.
DearMousie, thank you for your encouragement and conveying how disappointing this is to me. Yes it is because I really love him because he loves me and is a sweetheart to me and my family, cooks for us, fixes things around my home, etc. and to think he struggles in the areas that mean the most to me is painful to realize. I believe I've realized it for some time but just kept hoping he'd desire what I desire. Yes, he does have a track record. People do prove to us who they really are through their actions or lack thereof. I keep getting disappointed because I are waiting for him to prove to be someone different. He is who he is. It makes me sad but I know I'm worth more.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 2:20:14 PM
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jaggie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prov2717ironsharpens
It makes me sad but I know I'm worth more.
Then the longer you put it off, the harder it will be. Pray for the strength, and then tell him.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/14/2008 3:26:53 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
I'm feeling pretty insecure about our relationship
quote:
he knows my needs and hasn't made an effort to satisfy them
Not only do you need to be equally yoked, you need to feel secure in your relationship with him, and he needs to show/prove that he cares about you ... by knowing your needs and meeting them.
Of course, I imagine these needs are not that he become a millionaire and give you a lavish lifestyle (that's not the impression I'm getting).
quote:
holding off in hopes that my fiancé will change in the areas of his relationship with the Lord
You are correct in that you cannot change him, but have you had a serious talk with him about this? It's very important, and you do have the right to ask him outright. If you are afraid to ... there is yet another red flag.
In a serious relationship, spiritual and emotional needs need to be met, and you are both accountable to one another.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 9:01:58 AM
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prov2717ironsharpens
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I have had serious, repeated conversations with him about how important it is to me to feel financially secure. i was previously married to a man who filed for bankruptcy twice because he was more concerned with how good he looked or driving the latest vehicle. I am not someone who lives high above her means. I just like to be comfortable, i.e., paying mortgage, bills, etc. on time, eating out several times a month, vacationing once or twice a year (I have timeshare). The simple things in life. My fiance, since I've been with him, has been in a financial rollercoaster. When he gets a big job, he pays and catches up on bills and it's exciting for all of us. He's even helped me out at times too. When he hasn't gotten a big job in months, his finances struggle, i.e., cable cut off, one of his cars several years ago was repo'd., threatened foreclosure, child support has been delinquent and you know the Courts don't play. These are some of the things he's gone through. Now I know I'm not always perfect when it comes to paying all of my bills on time especially in today's economy; however, this has been an ongoing pattern for him and this inconsistency is very troubling and unsettling. It makes me wonder, what does this mean for my future, will I be the one carrying us while he's trying to figure it out, will my finances be effected if he gets delinquent in his childsupport. I'm thinking "oh heck no."
I will say, at times, I am apprehensive about bringing up the subject again (finances, etc.) because I sound like a broken record. I feel like you've heard all of this before and why am I repeating myself and expending needless energy trying to be understood. Since sharing with him last night that I needed alone time to really think about where we are going and to process my thoughts, he stated he is not a bum and is concerned about his finances too and why would I view it as irresponsible? He said i'm doing everything possible to establish myself and why don't I support him. I believe I have been patient and supportive for four years and tried to allow time for growth, realizing it's not my job to grow or change him.
I guess I'm writing alot because I'm venting and it feels good to process this stuff with others. Maybe I've been in denial, hoped things would change, wanted to give the benefit of my doubts, etc.
I really really don't want to be taken for granted again. I wanted to be smarter this time around. Lord, I need wisdom.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 1:05:48 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 6007
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quote:
this inconsistency is very troubling and unsettling. It makes me wonder, what does this mean for my future
His past seems pretty consistent. Although I believe past patterns of behavior can change, it is only through confession and repentance and a solid relationship in the Lord that these changes will become better and more consistent ...
I am getting the impression you know what's best for you and what you want in a marriage, and this man doesn't seem to possess what you need. I believe as women, we keep an eye on the future and we need to know what's coming up. I know I have a need to plan for the future - to know what's coming up. It's a part of who I am. I need to know that my bills are being paid. I need to know that the financial roller coaster has a plan to settle down as far as my ability to work and to make sacrifices for buying those "frou-frou" things is concerned.
I was married to someone who was financially unstable. We had to file BK. It was horrible. I know that the financial situation was out of my control because he flat refused to quit spending money we didn't have. Twice he went out and bought a new truck (and I'm not talking anything basic here, he got *the works*) without ever once discussing it with me or considering whether or not we could afford it. He didn't care. To me, that is completely unacceptable. A married couple needs to function as one, and both husband and wife must take into consideration what is best for the family. They must set aside the thoughts of "I want I want I want" for the sake of the marriage. Do you think he is capable of that?
You are wise to discuss this with others.
Are you in denial? Maybe part of you is (of course, please know that is only my personal opinion). Why do I think this? Based upon the questions you are asking and the comments you have shared ... and because I have been there myself. It's a tough decision when you are so emotionally involved with someone. Getting others' thoughs that are unbiased is a very good thing. It gives you a better viewpoint into your situation. It makes you think about things you might want to block from coming to the forefront.
If I do end up getting married again, he will need to show that he is financially responsible, and has been over a long period of time. Maybe someone will say that's unfair, but it's important to me. I struggle as a single mother, and I would expect no more and no less from any man than what I am willing to give up to make ends meet.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 4:27:35 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prov2717ironsharpens
I will say, at times,
I am apprehensive
about bringing up the subject again (finances, etc.) because
I sound like a broken record.
I believe I have been patient and supportive
for four years
and tried to allow time for growth, realizing it's not my job to grow or change him.
Look at the things you've said that are in bold, and put them together. How many more years of anxiety and beating your head against a wall would you like to live? It's not as good as being happy single.
And if he can't pay child support for the helpless children God gave him even with the courts menacing him, why would he worry about paying wife support for someone who can earn their own way?
I'm sorry, dear one. You deserve a medal for your patience, and it has proven the guy isn't going to change even if he gets a lot of time.
If there is a good guy interested in you, he sees you are already engaged and not available.
Doesn't pay child support? Deal breaker!
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 5:14:39 PM
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delete123
Posts: 991
Joined: 6/1/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prov2717ironsharpens
I have had serious, repeated conversations with him about how important it is to me to feel financially secure. i was previously married to a man who filed for bankruptcy twice because he was more concerned with how good he looked or driving the latest vehicle. I am not someone who lives high above her means. I just like to be comfortable, i.e., paying mortgage, bills, etc. on time, eating out several times a month, vacationing once or twice a year (I have timeshare). The simple things in life. My fiance, since I've been with him, has been in a financial rollercoaster. When he gets a big job, he pays and catches up on bills and it's exciting for all of us. He's even helped me out at times too. When he hasn't gotten a big job in months, his finances struggle, i.e., cable cut off, one of his cars several years ago was repo'd., threatened foreclosure, child support has been delinquent and you know the Courts don't play. These are some of the things he's gone through. Now I know I'm not always perfect when it comes to paying all of my bills on time especially in today's economy; however, this has been an ongoing pattern for him and this inconsistency is very troubling and unsettling. It makes me wonder, what does this mean for my future, will I be the one carrying us while he's trying to figure it out, will my finances be effected if he gets delinquent in his childsupport. I'm thinking "oh heck no."
I will say, at times, I am apprehensive about bringing up the subject again (finances, etc.) because I sound like a broken record. I feel like you've heard all of this before and why am I repeating myself and expending needless energy trying to be understood. Since sharing with him last night that I needed alone time to really think about where we are going and to process my thoughts, he stated he is not a bum and is concerned about his finances too and why would I view it as irresponsible? He said i'm doing everything possible to establish myself and why don't I support him. I believe I have been patient and supportive for four years and tried to allow time for growth, realizing it's not my job to grow or change him.
I guess I'm writing alot because I'm venting and it feels good to process this stuff with others. Maybe I've been in denial, hoped things would change, wanted to give the benefit of my doubts, etc.
I really really don't want to be taken for granted again. I wanted to be smarter this time around. Lord, I need wisdom.
Why Do you keep falling for the same type of men? Husband number 1 sounds very similar to maybe #2 in some ways.
I agree with Deermousie~ Not paying timely child support and not even caring about it, is a dealbreaker.
My first husband lied through his teeth and I fell hook line and sinker. He lived alone, all his bills were paid so I had no reason not to believe him.
Well the ball rolled out when we got married.
He didn't work
Had borrowed money from his elderly mother
His sufficient brother
Was collecting worker's comp.
Frankly he refused to work and I had to work 2-3 jobs to keep us afloat.
Believe me, this guy is telling you straightout He doesn't want a *real* job. He's following his pipedream and it doesn't matter to him really who it includes.
Depending on what state, some laws will make you responsible for his debt.
I would definitely not hook up with him
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 7:29:14 PM
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jaggie
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Not to mention that depending on what state and what judge, that child support thing can land him in jail. You are right, the courts don't play.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/15/2008 9:30:58 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Believe me, this guy is telling you straightout He doesn't want a *real* job. He's following his pipedream and it doesn't matter to him really who it includes.
Depending on what state, some laws will make you responsible for his debt.
Delete123 hit two nails on the head, Prov27; please think hard about these points. Look how many guys pay child support and it's not even their biological kid.
You could decide to just skip marrying him but start paying his child support so those poor fatherless kids at least have a steady income. They need someone in their lives they can count on, and it would be a worthy ministry for you. You don't have to, but it would be a good thing if you can afford it.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/16/2008 8:08:03 AM
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prov2717ironsharpens
Posts: 16
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quote:
Are you in denial? Maybe part of you is ... Based upon the questions you are asking and the comments you have shared. It's a tough decision when you are so emotionally involved with someone.
Yes part of me is in denial. I keep thinking just maybe he'll change. Maybe if I hang on a little longer, the Lord will answer my prayer. But if I let go too soon, he will change and i will have missed my blessing. [Be not weary in well-doing, due season is coming] And then the other part of me is thinking you are a fool. Why do you think he is going to change. He has already shown you who he is. Get a grip girl and move on. It's okay if you are alone for a time. The Lord has always taken care of you. It doesn't matter what people say, it doesn't matter how our families' lives are intertwined, it doesn't matter if you loose all those friends you've made because of your relationship with him. If they love you, they'll stick around. It doesn't matter if the holidays are coming and you won't have him to share them with because you've been down this road before and if it didn't kill you then, what makes you think it's going to kill you now. THESE ARE ALL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN MY MIND.
quote:
Not to mention that depending on what state and what judge, that child support thing can land him in jail. You are right, the courts don't play.
Um . . . he's been there once before and had his license suspended twice.
quote:
Why Do you keep falling for the same type of men? Husband number 1 sounds very similar to maybe #2 in some ways.
That is interesting. the thing about it is husband #1 wasn't like that but turned out to be irresponsible around the 7th year of marriage. I did; however, stick in there #1 because of the kids, #2 my insecurity to make it without him and #3 my pastor and wife encouraged me to hang in there, even after his numerous affairs. And I did hang in there for 17 more years. Relationship #2 (fiance) didn't appear to be this way in the beginning either. He had it going on (3 homes, which included his vac house, 2 expensive vehicles, land, and alot of financially well-off friends). I was attracted to the whole package; his gentlemanly like ways, love for his family, interest in getting closer to the Lord, love for my family, his businessman-like ability to acquire the land, etc., and the devotion of his many friends. Why he changed too, i'm not too sure. Or maybe he showed me what he wanted me to see in hopes of possibly getting it together. I truly believe he believes he will prosper and be successful. It just baffles me that he doesn't see how irresponsible he currently is.
And, I will NOT be paying his child support.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/16/2008 10:12:07 AM
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Szaftoo
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I really feel for this difficult decision you must make, however, I believe this relationship has way too many red flags to be healthy. Also, I don't know the ages of your children, but is this the example of what a man should be to them?
I will help you pray.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/16/2008 2:04:07 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prov2717ironsharpens
Yes part of me is in denial. I keep thinking just maybe he'll change.
<versus>
But if I let go too soon, he will change and i will have missed my blessing.
You could easily drive yourself nuts doing this, dear sister.  Have you ever tried to break a habit like chewing your nails? It's nearly impossible to change, and this guy isn't even motivated by marrying you to change. Not in 4 years.
And if you don't marry him and he changes, the only thing you really lose is money. You've had to struggle financially, but hasn't God met your needs? Ps. 84:11 says God withholds nothing good, so if you don't have it God thinks you don't need it. God can give you money some way other than this guy.
quote:
[Be not weary in well-doing, due season is coming] And then the other part of me is thinking you are a fool. Why do you think he is going to change. He has already shown you who he is. Get a grip girl and move on. It's okay if you are alone for a time. The Lord has always taken care of you. It doesn't matter what people say, it doesn't matter how our families' lives are intertwined, it doesn't matter if you loose all those friends you've made because of your relationship with him. If they love you, they'll stick around. It doesn't matter if the holidays are coming and you won't have him to share them with because you've been down this road before and if it didn't kill you then, what makes you think it's going to kill you now. THESE ARE ALL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN MY MIND.
Yeah, you got it. You see the whole picture. It's hard because no matter what you choose, you lose something or perceive that you'll lose something. Write down what those things are; it will help make it clearer to you.
quote:
Um . . . he's been there once before and had his license suspended twice.
This guy does not sound like good husband material:
- Doesn't support his kids (God says he's worse than an unbeliever)
- jail record (the law says he's a criminal)
- license suspended twice
- hasn't had a steady job in 20 years
quote:
I was attracted to the whole package; his gentlemanly like ways, love for his family...
Not including the kids he doesn't support.
quote:
I truly believe he believes he will prosper and be successful. It just baffles me that he doesn't see how irresponsible he currently is.
OK, he has reality problems. He doesn't tell the truth, but actually he sounds like the people who are trapped in a gambling addiction.
quote:
And, I will NOT be paying his child support.
I understand.
If you married him, the courts could disagree with you and you'd have no choice. They'd break you financially and put you in jail. Who then would be mom to your kids?
I'm sorry this has been such a struggle for you. You know what to do, you probably just need the reason in black and white so you can cling to it as the emotional storm rolls over you. I recommend this one:
1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
This guy does not get a thumb's up from God, but rather a condemnation. That's extremely serious.
I am praying for you, dear one. Be strong. (((Hugs)))
_____________________________
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/16/2008 6:40:06 PM
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delete123
Posts: 991
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prov2717ironsharpens
Relationship #2 (fiance) didn't appear to be this way in the beginning either. He had it going on (3 homes, which included his vac house, 2 expensive vehicles, land, and alot of financially well-off friends). I was attracted to the whole package; his gentlemanly like ways, love for his family, interest in getting closer to the Lord, love for my family, his businessman-like ability to acquire the land, etc., and the devotion of his many friends.
So this is basically your attraction and you are afraid if you break up and *IF* he happens to make it you will lose out!
I see the picture clearly.
DeerMousie is right~ You are selling yourself out for what God has already provided and has provided for you on an *IF* what you 'think' a man may give you. That you believe will be better.
You need to go back and review your choices:
God neverending provision or a man's temporal provision when the moment arises and does not last.
What was that, that Jesus said about do not store things up where the rust and moth do corrupt? Hmmmm!
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/16/2008 7:53:38 PM
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creationtalk
Posts: 704
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quote:
Yes part of me is in denial. I keep thinking just maybe he'll change. Maybe if I hang on a little longer, the Lord will answer my prayer. But if I let go too soon, he will change and i will have missed my blessing. [Be not weary in well-doing, due season is coming] And then the other part of me is thinking you are a fool. Why do you think he is going to change. He has already shown you who he is. Get a grip girl and move on. It's okay if you are alone for a time.
Part in bold: How do you know that by continuing to hold on to this sinking ship that you are not keeping God from bringing you your blessing. If he is the one you are supposed to be with, and you let go, when he finally grows up, God can bring you back together.
Part in italics: He's had 4 years to grow up...tacked on to the previous 16 when he didn't bother to grow up, when he apparently had another family that he didn't care enough about to grow up and care for.... If this pattern of chasing one pipedream after another has gone on for 20 years, then I'm guessing this guy is in his 40's. If he hasn't grown up by now, chances are you can wait another 20 years and still be in the same place.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/17/2008 9:35:42 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1866
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quote:
He is a wonderful, caring man who is concerned for my well-being. He loves my children and family, and goes to great lengths to make sure some of our needs are met.
Just what is so wonderful about him and just what needs are being met through this man? If he doesn't have a job how can he even meet his own need much less someone else's?
If he isn't paying child support he for sure is neglecting his own because a man who cares about himself will care about providing for his children. If he is not doing that what in the world makes you think he will provide for you and your kids which are not his????
Sorry, but I think you need to get off the elevator before it's stuck in the basement.
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RE: HOW DO I TELL HIM - 11/17/2008 10:36:22 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
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You have allowed this to continue for 4 years so he has no reason to change. And if he changed for YOU, it would not last. Drawing this out isn't fair to either of you and really isn't easier.
Telling him in a caring and considerate way that you have realized you need to move on is truly the kindest thing you can do.
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D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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