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Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/17/2008 4:06:08 PM
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Ntech
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Something for all to consider here.
A few years back I ran across a parallel between some ancient end time prophesies and current news events. And that caused me to research the subject rather thourghly. And my conclusions were these.
Even though this prophecy was supposedly fulfilled 2000-2500 years ago it never completed. Jesus Christ even mentions an event in it as being a future event to him. I would say that these prophesies are supposed to repeat in their entirity.
So here is the prophesies to look at Daniel 8 and 11. Start with Daniel 11-2 and consider this. It makes a perfect 500 BC description of the 9-11 attacks. Washington DC as the realm of Greece? Feasible considering Daniel is describing a vision.
Then in 11-3 Daniel describes a powerful king attacking back.
Then you have to jump to Daniel 8 for the rest of the story. Greece counterattacks Persia and conquers 2 nations. Then fully kills the ram representing Persia. And then once Persia is dead then the great horn of the goat is broken and 4 notable ones take it's place.
So now my question would be is are we watching prophecy in action? And will we shortly see Iran/Persia neutralized?
And would that mean that Obame is the last president of the US?
Opinions anyone?
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/17/2008 11:15:49 PM
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cow451
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In a word: no.
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/19/2008 3:47:54 PM
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Ntech
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Well, just one thing to consider here. If Daniel 8 and 11 are to repeat in their entirity then the history of the past eight years is how the end of the world starts.
Right now I would be watching Iran and Israel very carefully for awhile just in case I'm right.
But in the original timeline the fracturing of Greece happened after the the death of Alexander the Great. If we are seeing a replay of the prophesies here then the US will fracture sometime in the next 4 to 8 years. So watch and see.
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/19/2008 9:58:34 PM
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cog41
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No.
Our fracturing will be ideology,values etc.. No North & South this time.
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/25/2008 1:17:20 PM
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Ntech
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3sayDZz.QKc&refer=us
Russian Professor Says U.S. Will Break Up After Economic Crisis
By Robin Stringer
Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- A professor at the diplomatic academy of Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the U.S. will break into six parts because of the nation’s financial crisis.
“The dollar isn’t secured by anything,” Igor Panarin said in an interview transcribed by Russian newspaper Izvestia today. “The country’s foreign debt has grown like an avalanche; this is a pyramid, which has to collapse.”
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/25/2008 3:10:13 PM
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DaveW
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There is no mention of the US ANYWHERE in scripture, directly or indirectly. We should not try to make ourselves a place in there.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/27/2008 10:34:47 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, DaveW!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
There is no mention of the US ANYWHERE in scripture, directly or indirectly. We should not try to make ourselves a place in there.
Right you are, my brother! Makes me wonder if we're as high and mighty as we think we are. Either we won't exist when prophecies are fulfilled, or we're not significant enough to be recorded in the prophecies! Oh, and if one wants to try to find us in prophecy, he or she should look for "`Amer" for that is our Hebrew name when Isra'elis are referring to the United States of America. (I've never found it.)
Retrobyter
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 11:07:09 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
There is no mention of the US ANYWHERE in scripture, directly or indirectly. We should not try to make ourselves a place in there.
Oh really?
I would disagree. Daniel 7:4 aptly describes England, the colonists, and then the transition to America. We are the only country in the world which puts Human Rights first and foremost.
In Isaiah 18, we might well be that strange nation of tall smooth-skinned people that finally comes to worship the Lord at Jerusalem in the Millennium - the meek of America (who are not part of the Church, or Elect.) (The Elect would have been rescued from the Great Tribulation which happens after the midpoint of the one 'seven.')
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 12:27:26 PM
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SonicStudent
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I think that all or most nations will play some small part within end times.
It is clear however, that we need to be focused on Israel and her surrounding nations when reading end times.
All nations will be judged on what they did with the word of God and the gospel, and also, all nations will, in some small part, need to make a decision on whether they side 'with' or 'against' Israel, both throughout history and at the last days.
Having said that, I think we make a mistake when we see our nation as 'especially' significant within last days prophecy. It's a mixture of national pride, short sightedness and a lack of understanding that God's salvation started with Israel, came from Israel and here we see conclusion in and with Israel.
God created the nation Israel, He loves Israel, and we as nations are indebted to Israel for a lot, and God isn't finished with Israel either, as in the future, there is more good things to come from Israel.
If we are looking toward any particular nation within prophecy, we need to re-focus on Israel, because even the nations that are clearly seen to be involved in the last days, it's 'all focused on and because of Israel'! It began here, it will end here! So even if our nation is involved at the end, as many nations are, it's Israel where God's and Satan's attention and desire is focused on within end time prophecy, to the major extent at least!
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 12:50:39 PM
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bob97
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And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Gen 12:3
We really need to remember God’s words here. I know many would disregard what He has said but God’s words remain forever.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 1:09:47 PM
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SonicStudent
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LOL, Bob you always seem to be able to say in a few short words what I say in an A4 piece LOL
Thanks,
Mark
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 3:04:31 PM
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bob97
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Mark…that is because my literary skills are very limited and I have to hurry up and get done before I mess up.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/28/2008 4:35:50 PM
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bob97
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You should see it from this end brother!! 
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/29/2008 4:47:40 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shabbat shalom, Sinner-Saint.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
There is no mention of the US ANYWHERE in scripture, directly or indirectly. We should not try to make ourselves a place in there.
Oh really?
I would disagree. Daniel 7:4 aptly describes England, the colonists, and then the transition to America. We are the only country in the world which puts Human Rights first and foremost.
In Isaiah 18, we might well be that strange nation of tall smooth-skinned people that finally comes to worship the Lord at Jerusalem in the Millennium - the meek of America (who are not part of the Church, or Elect.) (The Elect would have been rescued from the Great Tribulation which happens after the midpoint of the one 'seven.')
How soon we forget. Actually Dani'el 7:4 is a good summary of Dani'el 4! We are told that this beast is N'vukhadnetzar (Nebuchadnezzar), hence his empire. England? America? Naw.
As far as Isaiah 18 is concerned, look at a map! The "land beyond Ethiopia" with reference to Isra'el would be a land south and EAST from them! That would either be the country Somalia or Kenya (or both), since we are talking about a sea-faring country "beyond the rivers" (the Blue and the White Nile Rivers).
Isa 18
1 Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:
2 That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!
3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.
KJV
This is a prophecy promising that scattered Jews would return from that region as well back to "the place of the name of the LORD of hosts (ADONAI Ts'va'ot), the mount Zion." Don't twist the Scriptures to try to force them to say something they don't or to talk about people that they don't!
Retrobyter
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/29/2008 4:52:30 PM
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His_will_i_am
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Daniel 8:1-8
1In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
This area of land is just south of present day Baghdad, near the Euphrates river.
3Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
Perhaps the ram represents Iraq/Saddam Hussein. The two horns represent two figures of authority/his two sons, Udai and Qusai. The two horns were high which means that they had great authority in the country. The one which was higher coming up last was the second oldest having more authority than the oldest. Saddam's second oldest son was number two in Saddam's cabinet, being more intelligent and level-headed. The oldest son was psychotic, being well known for murdering and raping men and women.
4I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
In Saddam's thirst to revive the Babylonian empire, he pushed north towards the Kurds, west towards the Shia,(since he was Sunni) and south towards the oil rich country of Kuwait. At one time he had the 4th largest army in the world and the whole middle east was afraid of Iraq. as time went on, Saddam became well-known for exalting himself, acting the part of a great king.
5And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Perhaps the he goat represents the USA/first President Bush. We sent our troops by plane and ship by way of the Mediteranean Sea, from the west. None of our forces came by land. The notable horn is the second Bush, our current President.
6And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
During the current war in Iraq, the USA unleashed a military campaign unlike any that the world had ever seen. The USA conquered a country the size of California in 27 days, unlaeashing such of an assualt by air, land, and sea that the world was in awe.
7And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
During a visit to the middle east between the two wars, Saddam Hussein, unsuccessfully, attempted to assasinated the first Bush during a trip to Egypt. His son was mad that Saddam would try to kill his father. This could be a reason for the son to go to war to oust Saddam. He smote the horns means that the USA destroyed the two sons. Both sons of Saddam were killed in a firefight during the war. Nothing could stop the USA military machine from defeating Saddam's/Iraq's forces. Also, Saddam himself was found in a hole in the ground, attempting to hide from our forces.
8Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
The world at one time looked at the USA/Bush in awe of it's military achievement. But his authority is being broken, even as we speak. With the escalating violence and the change in Congress, four major influences are going to rise up to gain controlling influence in the area. The middle-eastern "Quartet"?
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/29/2008 10:17:38 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saintquote:
There is no mention of the US ANYWHERE in scripture, directly or indirectly. We should not try to make ourselves a place in there. Oh really?
I would disagree. Daniel 7:4 aptly describes England, the colonists, and then the transition to America. We are the only country in the world which puts Human Rights first and foremost. Sorry - IF (and that is a big IF) the beast refers to a nation, it would have to be the Greko-Roman society of 2000 years ago. The eagle was a Roman symbol and it started the age of reason.quote:
In Isaiah 18, we might well be that strange nation of tall smooth-skinned people that finally comes to worship the Lord at Jerusalem in the Millennium - the meek of America (who are not part of the Church, or Elect.) (The Elect would have been rescued from the Great Tribulation which happens after the midpoint of the one 'seven.')
Again, there is nothing to tie that to the US. It is WAY too generic and can apply to anyone.
So I state it again: THERE is NO mention of the US anywhere in scripture. I would consider it arrogance on our part to try to write ourselves into the bible.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 11/30/2008 10:33:16 AM
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applezink
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Hello.
I believe that daniel 8 is talking about usa and not alexander the great.
2 reasons why i believe such....
1.) this king came from the west across the face of the WHOLE earth, and touched not the ground. (oceans between).
Alexander attacked from the north east and his army touched ground the whole trip.
2.) Daniel was standing by the river of U'la-i (Kuwait) when he saw this.
Isn't this where the war started? in Kuwait?
And as for the "waxing" great, its hard telling how long that is.
But this is just my belief because of those 2 clues.
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 12/1/2008 5:46:21 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ntech
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3sayDZz.QKc&refer=us
Russian Professor Says U.S. Will Break Up After Economic Crisis
By Robin Stringer
Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- A professor at the diplomatic academy of Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the U.S. will break into six parts because of the nation’s financial crisis.
“The dollar isn’t secured by anything,” Igor Panarin said in an interview transcribed by Russian newspaper Izvestia today. “The country’s foreign debt has grown like an avalanche; this is a pyramid, which has to collapse.”
The country has already been divided into six parts:
PAC-10
Big 10
Big 12
SEC
ACC
Big East
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Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 12/1/2008 11:56:45 PM
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bob97
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I thoughts it was only two parts...the big 12 and you other guys.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 12/6/2008 11:40:26 PM
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Ntech
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Just one more crazy detail for the thread...... If I'm right then the verses about the days of the carcass in Matthew 24 might apply here.... For once the ram of Daniel 8 is dead then what you would have is a carcass. And Jesus Christ does make a reference back to Daniel with the Abomination of Desolation reference. It seems to me that he is implying that some of Daniel is to repeat. And it sure appears that we're watching a rerun.
And 1-20-09 is the date of the symbolic "death" of the first king of the prophecy. After which? Well, considering the next verses of Matthew 24 and Daniel 11-4 and 8-20 (11-4 and 8-20 describe the same event) could 11-4 be a rapture prophecy? If you consider that Daniel 11 is a description of a vision of future events then how else do you visulize 11-4? Plucked up eh?
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 12/14/2008 2:16:33 AM
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WanderingLamb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ntech
quote:
And 1-20-09 is the date of the symbolic "death" of the first king of the prophecy
Where do you get this from?
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RE: Is the US about to fracture into the 4 republics? - 12/14/2008 5:21:04 AM
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Ntech
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Where do I get it from???
Well, basically what appears to be happening is a rerun of the events that happened from about 500BC to appromimatly 70 AD. So we have the original timeline to look at as a guide. And roughly what happened in the first timeline was that Daniel predicted the rise of Alexander the Great. He went and conquered the Persian empire and then died in India. Then his empire was split 4 ways and given to 4 of his generals.
Also during this time the 2nd temple had been built in Jerusalem. Then later Antiochus Epiphanes came on the scene and wanted to "Hellenize" Israel. So he descrates the temple and tried to ban the pratice of Judaism.
He eventually failed and dies of illness. This "Antiochus Epiphanes" is considered a prototype Antichrist.
So as I said. On 1-20-09 would be the symbolic death of Alexander the Great. Or when G. W. Bush's presidency ends. I could see the country splitting 4 ways if the US slides into a depression along with natural and supernatural disasters to help it along.
< Message edited by Ntech -- 12/14/2008 5:28:20 AM >
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..Having trouble wrapping my head around that.